S-Bogen biegen

Der Bogen von meinem 10M ist deutlich stärker gekrümmt als der von meinem Serie III. Ich finde keine Position grundsätzlich besser, finde aber, dass die unterschiedlichen Positionen andere Ansatzvariationen unterstützen.

 

Hallo, danke für die Antworten, ich biege auch bestimmt nicht selber ´dran herum.
Wenn ich das Sax bequem halte, die Finger liegen locker, der Nacken ist entspannt, dann neige ich den Kopf nach vorn herab. Mach ich den Gurt kürzer, bekomme ich deutlich Druck im Nacken. Diese Kopf nach vorn geneigt Haltung hatte ich auch schon ganz früher, hat sich von selbst so eingestellt. Seit dem workshop mit Saxhornet verwende ich manchmal Übeeinheiten nur aufs voicing, und da kam mir eben neulich der Gedanke, der Bogen könnte mir eigentlich etwas mehr entgegenkommen. Hängt vielleicht auch damit zusammen, dass ich eher groß geraten bin. Ich frage einmal bei Gloger nach. VG, TSax80

 

Direction: I have rarely seen a saxophone player with a fully upright posture with the head leading a lengthening spine upward, unless the saxophonist had worked with an Alexander Technique teacher. Alexander Technique teachers do not see a held upright posture as truly upright. The moment you “hold good posture”, you are interfering with your ability to control your breath on the saxophone with ease, interfering with the freedom and flow in your hands and arms on the keys, so you are not letting yourself be as good as you could be on the saxophone. In the opening section of this article I defined the Alexandrian concept direction or directing. Here it is again: Direction is the Alexander Technique principle that the head wants to lead the spine into lengthening in an activity, and your head leading a lengthening spine creates organized, elegant, graceful, and powerful saxophone performing. So, core to this technique is that when you play the saxophone, you do so with a lengthening spine. This will organize
and coordinate your whole body, so that when you play, you won’t damage your discs and impair the efficiency of your nervous system.

The reason most saxophonists play with such poor posture and without direction, is because everything about the instrument takes you forward and collapsed. In supporting the saxophone with the neck strap, saxophone players bring their heads forward unconsciously to make it easier on the neck. So, you collapse the neck to protect the neck, but this causes even more neck and postural problems. Stand or sit with the saxophone. Choose a three octave scale to play and play it with no specific intention. Now, release your neck and direct your head to lead your spine into lengthening upward as you play. Continue to repeat the scale, as you place all of awareness on your head leading a released neck and spine upward. Notice if you can play the scale being aware of directing the whole time. Now, choose a piece of music to play that you know but need to look at and play it. Choose either a short piece or a passage from a piece. Play it with no specific intention. Now, play it with all of your awareness on a free neck and your head leading a released spine upward. It does not matter what comes out of the instrument. The only thing that matters is can you gently and continuously direct and experience your head leading your spine into lengthening upward. Now, look across the room, as if you were looking at the conductor and play this same piece of music, looking back and forth between the conductor and the music and continuously directing. What I just took you through is a process in making directing or up an integral part of your saxophone technique. In doing so, I’m returning you to what the healthy baby and healthy animal do when they crawl or play. When a healthy baby or healthy animal crawls or walks, their necks release, their spines lengthen, and they move. This is the inherent expansive body use of a fearless baby or animal. In learning to direct as your way of always playing the saxophone, you aren’t learning something new, you are returning to what you did as a child, before you learned to get things right. In other words, when you direct as you play the saxophone, you are letting go of your past on the instrument and playing it, as if it has always been easy and you always expected yourself to play all of the right notes at the right time. What happens to the spine when you direct? You order your neck to release and your head to go up. When you order your neck muscles to release, then the head is allowed to balance on top of the spine, but it is not held as it balances there, and neither is it bobbling. In ordering the neck to release and the spine to lengthen, you have ordered the musculature of the neck and spine to stop pulling you downward and to support the saxophone, and this allows the jelly filled discs between the vertebrae to lift the vertebrae, and your whole back decompresses. There is another major piece that needs to be addressed, if there is going to be a true sense of directing in the whole head, neck, and spine. There needs to be a lengthening of the front of the torso, from the neck line under the jaw to the front of the pelvis. When a saxophone player is collapsed forward in his posture, the head is closer to the pelvis. If the player is fully upright and directing, then the length up the front of the body has as profound an effect on the saxophonist’s posture and playing as the lengthening spine. They actually go together, since the ribs attach to the back, which means the front and back of the torso can’t work independently of each other, but they sure can try. The typical, powerful, pulled-down posture to the front of the torso of the saxophone player can be so powerfully habitual, that it can thwart your attempts to direct as you play. If the abdominal muscles are contracted they are pulling the ribs downward to the pelvis. If the pectoral muscles are pulling the shoulders inward and downward and pulling the collar bones down into the ribcage, and if the powerful neck musculature is pulling the head forward and downward with the weight of the saxophone, then no matter how much you direct your spine to lengthen, it ain’t going to happen.

Kind, Ethan. An Alexander Technique Approach to Tenor Saxophone Technique (Kindle-Positionen197-204). Kindle-Version.

 

Danke an Ton. Da scheint mein Empfinden mich nicht zu trügen, dass aufrecht besser sein kann. Nur sitzt das Horn dann nicht mehr so gut am Körper. Egal, ich probiere das die nächsten Tage aus mit kürzerem Gurt. VG, TSax80.

 

Wenn sich da wirklich was verschiebt dann um mm-Bruchteile. Glaube nicht dass man das sehen würde.
Außerdem weißt du ja nicht wie die Klappe vorher saß. Glaube ja nicht, die wären alle mittig angelötet .
VG

 

Meinst Du, dass Fotos möglich wären?

 

Zentrierter und sehr resonanterTon, leicht verbesserte Ansprache und Intonation.
Der Selmer Tenor Serie III S-Bogen hat den steilerem Winkel des Mark VI S-bogen.

 

Ich halte es da deutlich mit den Ausführungen von SlowJoe.
Ein weiteres Argument fällig?:

C-Melody Saxe wurden mit gradem (Alto) und gebogenem (Tenor) S-Bogen gebaut (Conn z.B. hatte beide Versionen im Angebot). Soweit ich weiß, klingen die Hörner sehr unterschiedlich. Auch die graden (die gesamte Bauform betreffend) Tenöre und Baris von King gab es nicht nur aus Gag sondern durchaus auch aus Soundgründen.

Nachträglich biegen: no-go
andere Bögen testen: do

keep swingin´


Saxax

 

ok, ist das dann auch die Ursache der UNterschiede zwischen Serie III Sax und den Refs? Die Bögen sind ja auch anders vom Winkwl her, oder?
LG
THomas

 

Das ist richtig.
Serie III S-bogen haben ein (viel) steileren Winkel als den Refs S-bogen.
Ein Reference 54 S-bogen hat mir auf meinem Serie III Tenorsaxophon (versilbert) nicht gefallen.
Ich benutze jetzt ein unlackiertes Tino Schucht TN1 Bogen und das gibt bestimmt ein Verbesserung.
Besonders ins mittleres Register.

 

Was genau heißt denn steilerer Winkel?
Bei gerade/senkrecht stehendem Sax. Ist steiler dann ein gegenüber der Horizontalen weiter nach oben oder nach unten stehendes S-Bogen-Ende?

LG StefAlt

 

Nachtrag: Bildvergleich. Rechts das SIII, links das Ref54

 

Weiter nach oben (rechts SIII).