Brief an Fred - Probleme Erwachsener beim Lernen

Schnuckelchen · 16.August.2011

HanZZ schrieb:

Schnuckelchen schrieb:

Fängst Du mit 10 an, hast Du [color=CC0000]statistisch[/color] 35 Jahr mehr Zeit, als wenn Du mit 45 anfängst. 35 Jahre ist viel um etwas RICHTIG GUT zu lernen.

Grüße
Claudia
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[Klugscheissmodus on]
Bei gleichbleibendem Lebensaustrittsalter ist das nicht nur statistisch, sondern ganz real so. [Klugscheissmodus off]

SCNR
HanZZ
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Du sagst es - ich spürs jedoch schon: das Ende naht!

Grüße
Claudia

Schnuckelchen · 16.August.2011

Raggae schrieb:

Klar weiß ich, wie Du das meinst. Ich bin aber trotzdem anderer Meinung. Guck Dir nur mal an, wie viel Geduld und wie viel Böcke viele Kinder haben, ein Instrument zu lernen. Na klar bin ich auch neidisch auf die, die früher angefangen haben. Und ich könnte auch schon 16 Jahre länger Sax spielen, wenn ich damals dabei geblieben wäre und nicht mein Studium hätte abschließen müssen. Da kommt jetzt aber ne Menge Konjunktiv ins Spiel. Ich habe keine Ahnung, ob ich morgen überhaupt noch lebe, um Sax zu spielen.

Darum GENIESSE ich es HEUTE. Und das fühlt sich jenseits aller tickenden Uhren richtig gut an.
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Konjunktive begleiten einen doch das ganze Leben.

Ich habe als Kind und Jugendliche sehr gern Klavier gespielt und hätte es auch weiter getan, wenn da nicht das Abi, die viel zu kleine Studentenbude und danach der Job gewesen wäre (huch, ein Konjunktiv! ). Den Rest unterschreib ich. Man lebt ja nur einmal - und es gibt auch noch ein Dasein neben all den beruflichen und familiären Verpflichtungen. Lassen wir die Uhr einfach ticken und hören nicht hin.

Grüße
Claudia

Raggae · 16.August.2011

Schnuckelchen schrieb:
Man lebt ja nur einmal - und es gibt auch noch ein Dasein neben all den beruflichen und familiären Verpflichtungen. Lassen wir die Uhr einfach ticken und hören nicht hin.
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Genau.

Gelöschtes Mitglied 5328 · 16.August.2011

@ Claudia and Greg

Claudia, i absolultely share your point of view.

There is a difference in teaching someone who will become professional, someone who is playing fo pleasure, young stundents or adult students.

And I myself expect from my teacher, that he is on the one hand understanding my personal life situation and on the other hand is able to challenge me.

For me it is not neccessary to learn all theory consequently, BUT it helps very much understanding how to improvise, if I know some basics.

And of course it is helpful to hear and learn from the "old masters", but I myself do not need to do it everyday.

I do not need a teacher, who is setting me fixed goals for the next year, but I need a teacher, who shows me the way how to improve. It is my own decision what I want to learn in which time with which kind of intensity. That´s the differnence to a young stundent, who is going to become a professional.

With kind regards,

Dreas

Raggae · 16.August.2011

Dreas schrieb:

And of course it is helpful to hear and learn from the "old masters", but I myself do not need to do it everyday.
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I'd like to throw in that the masters don't necessarily need to be old - or even dead ...

Gelöschtes Mitglied 5328 · 16.August.2011

Hi Raggea

I agree. I understand "old masters" as "experienced masters"...

LG

Dreas

Raggae · 16.August.2011

gregfishman schrieb:
Hi Raggae,

That's an excellent question. This brings up the difference between what I call "active" listening and "passive" listening. Listening to things in the background is passive listening.

In order to really make a difference in your playing with listening, it needs to be active listening. Here are some guidelines I use for myself when actively listening, with the goal of enhancing my playing:

1. Listen in a comfortable environment. I actually do a lot of quality listening in the car while on long driving trips.

2. Don't have a TV or computer on or do email or anything else while listening.

3. Listen many times to the same track (not the entire CD).

4. Listen through and try to take mental notes about different aspects of the performance;

A) Notice the tone...is it bright? dark? subtone? full-tone? Is he putting vibrato on the notes?

B) Notice the inflections...is he using grace notes? scooped notes? ornaments (turns)?

C) Notice the register...is he playing over the full range of the horn, or is he focusing on low, middle, high or altissimo notes?

D) Notice the rhythms....is he playing mostly eighth notes? sixteenth notes (doubletime)? Or, perhaps longer notes like half or quarter notes?

E) Notice the articulation....is he playing with what I call "mainstream articulation," tonguing the upbeats and slurring into the downbeats, or is he using lots of slurs or staccato notes? Perhaps he's tonguing repeated notes at times?

F) Notice the dynamics....is he playing loud, medium-loud or softly? Is the dynamic level changing? Is he adding breath or tongue accents to some of the notes?

G) Notice the rests...is he leaving lots of space between his phrases, or is there very little space? When he leaves space, do it seem like the rhythm section is responding to something he played? When he comes back in with his next phrase, does it seem like it's a continuation of his previous idea, or does it seem like he's responding to the response of the rhythm section?

H) Sing along with the recording and try to match all of the elements discussed above. Try, at first, to sing along with the entire solo. After a few times through, break it into smaller phrases. Listen to the first phrase (or first four bars) and sing along with it, trying to match with your voice everything that you hear the performer playing on the saxophone. Once you can do this confidently, sing it without the recording in the background. Next, go through the same process with each subsequent phrase. Once you get the second phrase, add it to the first one and sing them together. This will take many many repetitions, but you'll notice more and more about the solo with each repetition. Continue to sing along and memorize one phrase at a time and sing both with and without the recording.

G) Take your saxophone out and try to find the first few notes of the first phrase you sung. This will require lots of patience, as you learn how to concentrate on the sound of the note you're singing and locate that exact note on the horn. This is great training. You don't need to do the entire solo in one day. Everyone has a different comfort level for this sort of work. It can be a combination of exciting, frustrating and tiring work, so do it until you feel like you're losing your focus, and then continue the work the next day, week, month, etc. There's no time limit on this. If you must slow down the recording with a computer program like amazing slow-downer or transcribe, that's fine, but if you can do it at full speed, that's even better. Either way, you'll get great results. I must stress that you need to be very patient and ready for lots of trial and error. Don't give up too easily. It might take 50 or 500 tries to figure out the right notes for just one phrase, but it's the process that will help you. The very act of searching for the notes will help to teach you how to focus and get the sound you desire.

H) If you get "stuck" and simply can't figure out a few notes or phrases, just skip them and put rests there. You can fix it later. Don't let it stop you from getting most of the solo.

I) Play the solo along with the recording, matching all of the details described above.

J) Listen to the recording again and try to sing the bass notes of the chords. This is a different type of listening than done previously. This will help you to hear the relationship between the notes of the solo and the chord progression. Sing the bass notes.

K) Once you can hear the bass notes, go to a piano and try to figure out the chords of the song. If you need help, you can try looking up the song in a fakebook and playing the chords on the piano in simple voicings. It is important to have some piano knowledge so that you can play basic chords and hear the notes all sounding at once.

L) If you want to further analyze the solo, you can try writing down the notes and rhythms and putting the chord symbols over each measure. This is an advanced technique. If this is too difficult, no worries. You'll still get much benefit from learning the solo by ear.

You can choose do to any or all of the suggestions above, and they will dramatically improve your listening skills. Be sure to choose a solo that you really like, and one that you think is not so far outside of your technical abilities that you can't imagine yourself ever being able to play it. In other words, don't start with a hard Coltrane solo for your first attempt at this!

I hope that this information helps!

Sincerely,

Greg Fishman
www.gregfishmanjazzstudios.com
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Wow! That is one heck of a long list!

Thanks a lot! I'll try ...

gregfishman · 17.August.2011

Hi Claudia,

Nice speaking with you. Sorry if you went over your lunch break! I know that jazz isn't for everyone. It takes so long to learn. It's nice that you have a wide variety of interests in music, though. I also listen of other types of music, though I'm really at home with jazz. If you do decide to go further into jazz, please visit my website. I have some nice articles, licks and downloads for free on the site.

Best Wishes,

Greg Fishman
www.gregfishmanjazzstudios.com

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